This Millennial Loves Cars, and Dave Mosher Knows Nothing

"KamikazePigeon" (KamikazePigeon) 10/18/2013 at 19:30 • Filed to: Millennials, Millennial, Dave Mosher, Popular Science, Rants, Auto Industry

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Say hello to Dave Mosher. He is a Projects Editor for Popular Science. He works for a pretty recognized publication in the world of, well, Popular Science.

To those of you who don't know, the above video was posted yesterday on Jalopnik. Dave Mosher is featured on what seems to be a semi-popular Youtube rant series for Popular Science. Mr. Mosher was trying to explain why he and a lot of Millennials don't own or want to buy cars.

Since I am also a Millennial as well as a proud Jalop and Opponaut, and this is OppositeLock, oh where do I begin?

There is so much about what Dave Mosher says as being completely contradictory and he has absolutely no clue what he's ranting about. I decided to take a little bit out of my day to pull apart his rant. I really hope Mr. Mosher can read this one day.

#1: "The last car I owned was a 1991 Isuzu Rodeo and only god knows how long ago that was."

Is that statement supposed to make us sympathize with him? He does know how long ago that was, it's basic mathematics. Don't be ignorant. As you read on or have already come to that conclusion, you'll find it's already too late. I'm unclear as to if this statement is just a pot shot against the Isuzu Rodeo to help the uneducated viewers see that he knows what he's talking about when he speaks about the automotive world. I don't know many specifics about the Isuzu Rodeo, but I know enough to see that the statement is completely irrelevant and is simply cheap rhetoric. Just because you explain your dad owned/worked at an auto shop to the viewers does not make you knowledgeable of the auto industry. You're entitled to an opinion, but please, educate yourself before posting a rant.

Why did he have the Rodeo in the first place? A need to get around? A want? Maybe it was gift? There's definitely a reason that he left out on purpose.

#2."It's not just me, it's a good chunk of my generation too. In between 2007 and to 2011, 30% fewer registrations were made by Millennials."

That's due to everyone losing their jobs because of the global financial crisis or couldn't get a job right out of college (and some still can't). It's a little more complicated than Millennials not being interested.

#3. "On top of that 1 in 2 of us, would prefer to live in a walk-able neighbourhood."

That's extremely misleading. Many of us want to live in urban/suburban neighbourhoods. I for one live in a large city with decent public transit but I still want to own a car. I'm sure more than a few of that 1 in 2 do as well. There is so much more that you can do with your own personal automobile than transport yourself from A to B. You can go camping, transport your own cargo on your own time, travel to destinations not accessible by public transit etc. There is a long list of benefits to owning your own car or just simply having access to one. The world needs and wants the automobile whether you like it or not.

#4. "Lose the driver's seat".

Electronics are far from perfect, it's only a matter of time before they fail at one point or another. Who would be at fault when they do fail? The driver, due to lack of maintenance? Manufacturer, due to a possible lack of quality control? Electronics aid the driver in controlling a vehicle and I'm a big supporter of that. However, I'm against that a skilled driver should be replaced by a machine designed by human beings.

#5." I'd rather be in the back with some toddlers watching Finding Nemo for the hundredth time than be behind the wheel and risk my life. In fact, 34,000 people died behind the wheel last year."

What if I told you, you were still susceptible to that risk being in the back seat of your car with "Siri" behind the wheel?

#6. "39% of teens in 2012 responded that they still text while driving... So get rid of the driver"

This is such a ridiculous point. That's like saying you should charge the knife with murder because it gave the user the ability to kill someone. Just stop texting behind the wheel, it's really not difficult.

#7. "You don't need to drive. Robots are better at it"

Please see Volvo's autonomous braking test from a few years ago. Yes, that accident was because the system was not turned on during the test. That an error caused by humans. Humans designed those systems. They are not perfect and are susceptible to errors and mistakes just like their creators are. When you service your autonomous car, the mechanic can make the same mistake with an electrical connection making a seemingly perfect system, imperfect.

#8. "Don't make me wreck the planet... **followed by cookie cutter environmentalist statements**

What if I told you, the automobile is the most recycled product humans make? I'll use your same list. The glass, the plastic (not all of them but I'm fairly certain quite a bit of it), the metal, the batteries (sure they're bad, but batteries are in almost everything electronic as well, why should the car get the blamed for it all?). Even used cars are resold to new owners making them recyclable without any further refinement.

#9. "Morally responsible"

Is mining and utilizing raw materials from our planet immoral? How do you expect to survive without using anything from our planet? (ie. harvesting crops (which slowly deplete minerals in the soil), drinking water just to name a few)

#10. "Follow Tesla's lead..."

Nuh uh! Oh he did not just go there!

I absolutely despise the cookie cutter responses from some people who claim they're environmentalists. Where does all the electricity from EVs come from? The outlet in your home or nearest supercharging station. Where does that energy come from? Mostly from coal plants, gas plants, nuclear plants, and of course, some renewable sources of power come from wind turbines, hydro electric dams etc.) Mining Lithium, isn't very environmentally friendly either. I love Tesla as much as the next guy. They are a glimmer of hope for the electric vehicle, but they still have a long way to go to become a viable option for the masses (range issues, charging times, price).

The swappable battery packs is a fantastic step in the right direction. You just have to make millions of batteries for motorists which is a tall order for the battery industry. Tesla also has various patents for the technology to swap out batteries. It'll be decades before any other manufacturer can "copy" the techniques to swap out the batteries in your car. Even when that happens, standard batteries will have to be used across the board for simplicity and accessibility. This will allow a battery that was used from a Tesla, be swapped into a Chevy once fully recharged. There is still a long road ahead.

#11. "So we can feel good about driving our cars."

I'm not here to blow sunshine up your butt Mr. Yellow Polo. Yes, we fuel our cars with liquid dinosaurs. Stop living in a fantasy world. This is the world we live in. Manufacturers are going above and beyond to get the most out of a single drop of fuel. It's still the cheapest way to get the energy we need. With that said, if you told me you could get over 400hp out of a V8 and still get mpg numbers in the high 20's ten years ago, I would have told you that you were insane and need to see someone about that bump on your head. The auto industry has come a long way.

#12. "We need charging stations to make it as easy as pumping gas."

That's extremely tall order but I'm confident it will get there in the decades to come. Also relates to my points in #10.

#13."No more fossil fuels, fussy nuclear technologies, none of that stuff. Auto Manufacturers, you got the government to build you a national highway system."

If you're regarding the Interstate System in the United States, it was built for you too. I remember in my American history class from years past (I'm from Canada), the Interstate System was actually built for the ease of movement for troops and supplies around the country during a time of war and in case of an emergency enemy invasion. It is not only the job of the Automakers to pressure the government for more renewable energy in North America, but even more so the job of you, as a citizen of your country, to pressure your government to do what you want it to.

#14. "Make cars more affordable... **followed by a bunch of reasoning the Automakers can't really control**

Look here Sunshine (I hope this nickname catches on from him), every single person has had their own hardships during this economic downturn around the globe. A lot of the manufacturers have struggled to stay afloat (some even went bust), not only because of the lack of people buying cars, but the increasing safety and emissions requirements around the world. These strict regulations makes cars more expensive but safer as a result. If you want them to be more affordable, some safety features will have to be removed. This point also conflicts with your point about autonomous cars.

Pretend it's 2011 and you're an Automaker, you're doing a lot of belt tightening at the moment with your cars and your company because not a lot of people are buying your new cars. Your current average fuel economy for your fleet is above 28.6 mpg. Then all of a sudden, in order to be able to sell cars in your home country, your home government asks you to raise that average to 54.5 mpg within 13 years (a little bit under double). Go for it. What do you do?

Automakers (especially ones here in North America) have done nothing less of something amazing in the last few years to be able to sell cars and turn a profit in such dire times with these increasing requirements. I support the push for more safe and fuel efficient cars, but I can't help but sympathize for the pressure on the engineers to perform such daunting task.

As you so eloquently state, "So that's really it". Yes that really is it. How can you be so obtuse and blind to the deeper issues that plague the automotive world?

I really hate when people who speak about things they have no back-up or reasoning for. I refuse to allow the automotive community turn into the Politcs of late. If you state an intention or a proposition, state your motivations and reasoning for them.

/EndRageFilledButRestrainedBlogEntry

I'm curious at what my fellow Opponauts and Jalops think of Mr. Sunshine? Leave what you think in the comments below!

Disclaimer: I am a Millennial, 22 years of age, with a serious passion for automobiles. I hope you can see my extreme frustration.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 19:34

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Well done mate, i'm loving your rant.

*I'm 22 as well, April 1991!

KamikazePigeon > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 10/18/2013 at 20:09

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Awesome! Thanks buddy! I'm glad you like it.

I'm a February '91 baby as well!

CobraJoe > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 20:11

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One addition regarding point #9: Several manufacturers are working to become "morally responsible" when it comes to the use of new materials. I know for sure that Ford is using several plant based foams and plastics in their new cars. If that's not perfectly in line with what he was asking for, then I have no idea what he's asking for.

Great counter-rant, BTW.

KamikazePigeon > CobraJoe 10/18/2013 at 20:24

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I did not know this about Ford! That's fantastic!

Thanks for your input!

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 20:41

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Either way, the environment is screwed. Taking cars out of the picture won't be a sudden antidote to our industrial society. As far as I'm concerned, we can enjoy cars and let the planet live X number of years after I'm dead, or stick with dirty industry in averting attention towards cars. Okay, that doesn't make sense very much. This sums it all up: IDGAF when giving one won't help anything.

CobraJoe > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 20:48

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No problem, here's a link from the source:

Also worth noting, there's a Subaru plant in Indiana that is zero landfil, it's even classified as a nature habitat.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 21:09

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I enjoyed reading your rant, it's pretty much what I've been asking myself ever since I saw his point of view.

June '92 baby here, and I'm wanting my own car, I'm passionate for cars, just like you. I like cars so much, that I'm working towards being an automotive technician as my career.

Harrycarry250 > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 21:10

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I am also a Millennial living in the big city. I approve this rant. I also approve large Mercedes sedans. I agree with you, this is upsetting, It's it crazy that this man(toddler) feels as though he can speak for an entire generation of people in America, from city dwellers to country folk.

The Smug is strong with this one.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > KamikazePigeon 10/18/2013 at 21:13

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I haven't used this image in a while, but this post is well deserving of a slow clap. I don't have a lot to add to the amount of right you wrote up there, but in #8, simply using the same car for a long time, without switching to a new model, could count aas recycling. Mine's approaching 20 years now, and if the average of the Brazilian is 9 years old, that's one more car that didn't have to be manufactured, which causes a much bigger impact than simply maintaining what I have now.

On #9, it could be argued that it's bullshit (as in complete and utter bullshit of the highest degree) to demand moral responsibility from the automakers when these millennials don't do their part as well. There are many responsible ways to make even a gas guzzler into an efficient way to get around, with car sharing being the first one that comes to mind, specially in the case of young college students, who can pool their colleagues and friends together and commute in a single car. I do it, every day of every week, and I rarely ever drive with less than 3 passengers, so I don't see why other people can't do it as well.

On #13, he should try moving to a country with a broken down highway system, to see just how awesome it is being unable to get around with ease, like here in Brazil. (it isn't. At all.)

And finally, on #14, I'd just like to add that I I'd like to receive a 10 billion dollars credit with every impossibly affordable ultra high tech car I buy. Hey, if we're just making ridiculous demands to automakers now, I might as well tap into that infinite pot of Money Mr. Mosher must think they have.

KamikazePigeon > CobraJoe 10/19/2013 at 10:22

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I gotta give it up for Subaru. That's an astonishing feat to have zero landfill yet produce more than half of North America's Subarus (and a few Camrys to boot with some sort of agreement with Toyota).

They've also been doing really well as of late. A lot of people see the obvious trailblazers like Tesla or other manufacturers trying to cut down on their carbon footprint.

I'm sure there's something positive that can be said for all the other more conventional automakers for their strides to reduce waste.

I cannot stress how amazing that is that Subaru is growing fairly rapidly here in North America, yet stride to be environmentally conscious with their continued success.

Thanks again CobraJoe! This is some great stuff to read. Have you ever thought about writing an article about the lesser known things the conventional automakers do to help reduce (or eliminate completely) their footprint?

KamikazePigeon > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 10/19/2013 at 10:27

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Thank you ZipppyArt!

I also don't own a car, but I do use a family-owned vehicle and strive to own one in the near future. I'm really glad someone is following their passion like you are! Not enough people take steps to do what they love and are passionate for.

KamikazePigeon > Harrycarry250 10/19/2013 at 10:38

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Thanks Harrycarry250! I approve of large Mercedes sedans as well. I also approve the ridiculous torque numbers of those large Mercedes sedans. It really is the wide sweeping generalizations from Mr. Sunshine that really get me. People do live in rural areas and need vehicles for work, play, and transportation duties. Like I said in my article, he is extremely obtuse and blind to the real, deeper issues at hand in the automotive world.

Unfortunately, I think Nibbles got at your photo and I can't see it. =(

KamikazePigeon > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 10/19/2013 at 10:47

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Thank you BlazinAce! I am absolutely honoured to be bestowed with the slowclap.gif. It really doesn't happen every day!

#9 really got me worked up too. There really are a lot of ways to reduce even a gas guzzler's footprint. You really do make a very good point. If an older large SUV gets ~15mpg (for example), but is able to carpool 8 individuals, does that have a smaller footprint for those same 8 people than having 4-8 small cars that get 35 mpg?

A friend of mine is from Sao Paulo actually. He's always said the highways were abysmal.

#14 really is the cherry on top of the cake. His demands are ridiculous and completely unrealistic. If you find that infinite pot of Money he thinks they have, let me know. I want in.

KamikazePigeon > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 10/19/2013 at 11:10

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I'm a bit of a realist with a dash of optimism and I think you're right, the environment kind of really is screwed.

I vaguely remember reading not too long ago that we surpassed the point of no return for CO2 levels on our planet. Meaning even if we somehow just stopped all of our emissions around the planet, we have already done irreparable harm to the planet and it won't be able to fix itself. Unless we actively remove CO2 (and other pollutants) from our air, this is all going to happen.

I feel bad for my great grandchildren. We may have it tough now, but unless we or they find a magical source of energy or are able to terraform and live on the other planets of our solar system, it's a slippery slope from here on end.

Harrycarry250 > KamikazePigeon 10/19/2013 at 12:33

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You are correct.

It was just a picture of my sitting on a longboard somewhere uptown.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > KamikazePigeon 10/19/2013 at 12:48

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Exactly, and it's something we can do right now, with the cars we have today.

For example, my car gets 7.6 km/l (about 18 MPG) on an exclusively urban circuit, while an economic car in Brazil gets an average of 23.5, but, being in college and having several friends who live nearby plus my brother who studies at the same campus, I hardly ever drive alone, maybe once or twice a month. There's always someone going somewhere among my friends that could use a ride and my typical commute is shared with at least 3 other people, sometimes 4.

If the 4 of us were driving one economical car each, we'd be doing, combined, around 8 miles per gallon, while my single, non economical car carrying four people still does 18 MPG. Plus, to tie in to another point, my car is an 18 years old Fiat, which is exactly twice the average age of the Brazilian fleet. If it had been used in that fashion since it was new, it would have done the work of 8 cars (2 per passenger in 20 years, with an average lifespan of 9 years) that wouldn't have had to be manufactured.

And if we're to go even further down that reasoning, the people who ride with me not only don't have to drive, but they can also count on a somewhat experienced and skilled designated driver who won't be distracted behind the wheel. And finally, my car is 100% recycled (it was my dad's Daily Driver before he passed it on to me), devoid of complex electronics and cost a meager 15 thousand dollars when new.

Oh god, David Mosher wants my car.